I would like first of all to extend my greetings to the Tudeh Party
of Iran and wish it success in its struggle. I would also like to salute
” Nameh Mardom” newspaper for the opportunity to clarify the big
historical events that are taking place in Egypt.
Q1 – In the recent statements of the CP Egypt (July 3rd) you referred
the fact that the mass protest movement comprises of various classes
and strata. How were the classes and strata of the Egyptian society
mobilized in the second wave of the 30th June Revolution?
Salah Adly: Since the outbreak of the revolution of 25th January
2011, the protest movements have not subsided, and demonstrations of
millions of people have not stopped, i.e. the revolutionary state of the
masses has always been there, subsiding at times and flaring up some
other times. The workers’ protests and strikes also escalated. After the
success of Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood came to power, the masses
discovered their authoritarian nature, fascist character, their bias to
the interests of more reactionary and parasitic sections of capitalism,
and their inability to run a state of the size of Egypt. Furthermore,
their betrayal of the interests of the homeland and their willingness to
act as the biggest broker to maintain the interests of America and
Israel in the region were exposed. They concluded the truce in Gaza and
gave America and Israel what even Mubarak’s client regime had not given.
Their sectarian and obscurantist project, which is hostile to
democracy, science, culture and tolerance, became very evident. More
importantly, the masses discovered the falsehood of their use of
religious slogans to disguise their plans in the service of the Greater
Middle East project and “creative chaos”.
Therefore, the number of social protests (strikes, sit-ins,
demonstrations and protest pickets) reached 7400 – by Mohamed Morsi’s
own admission – during last year. The unemployment rate reached 32%,
with most of the unemployed being holders of high and middle
qualifications. The foreign debts rose from $34 billion to $45 billion.
The domestic debt rose by 365 billion Egyptian pounds during the reign
of Morsi last year. The proportion of people living below the poverty
line increased to more than 50% of the population. In short, most
classes and strata of society – and its liberal, nationalist and leftist
political forces, as well as youth movements, mostly leftist and
nationalist oriented, in addition to the main state institutions,
especially the army, judiciary, media and police – felt there is a grave
danger as a result of the Muslim Brotherhood remaining in power because
of their fervent quest to monopolize power and exclude anyone who is
not with them, other than their allies among terrorist groups that use
religion as a cover.
Even broad sections of the middle and big Egyptian bourgeoisie in the
sectors of tourism, industry, trade, agriculture and construction felt
very scared for their interests as a result of the continued rule of the
Muslim Brotherhood which was creating an atmosphere of chaos,
insecurity and instability.
The “Tamarud” (Rebellion) Movement succeeded in collecting more than 22
million signatures for the withdrawal of confidence in Morsi and in
support of calling for early presidential elections. All parties, trade
unions and organizations participated in collecting signatures, and the
campaign spread in the streets of cities, in factories, schools and
universities, and in villages in all the governorates of Egypt. The
great importance of this campaign is that it was able to involve
Egyptian citizens actively in the revolutionary movement to overthrow
the rule of the Muslim Brotherhood. It also restored the peaceful and
democratic character of revolutionary action, and formed the basis for
removing the sacred cover of the false legitimacy of the ballot box as
the sole criterion for legitimacy and the democratic system. The call
for the collection of signatures was accompanied by calling for
demonstrations in all the main squares of Egypt on 30th June as a
principal test of the credibility of this campaign and the fundamental
basis for the revolutionary legitimacy of the masses to overthrow this
fascist regime and foil the project of the religious state.
The response of the masses of the Egyptian people was great, and the
biggest demonstrations in the history of Egypt, and even in the history
of the world, came out. This has been verified by the “Google Earth”
index. More than 27 million demonstrators came out at the same time in
all the governorates of Egypt, representing various classes and strata
of the Egyptian society, in the face of protests that did not exceed 200
thousand demonstrators from the Muslim Brotherhood and their allies in
one small square in Cairo. Thus, the Egyptian people were on one side
and the Muslim Brotherhood were with their allies on the other,
isolated, side. This is the reality of the scene. This is the reality
upon which any evaluation of the situation or any political scientific
analysis should be based.
We believe that what happened on 30th June is a second wave of the
Egyptian revolution that is stronger and deeper than the first wave in
2011. It has taken place to correct the path of the revolution and seize
it back from the forces of the extreme religious right that had
conspired to steal the revolution and ride its wave to serve their
fascist and reactionary objectives and the schemes of world imperialism.
Q2 – What is the level of the participation of the toiling classes and
workers in these protests? Why the workers participate in the battle
with political Islam for democratic rights?
Salah Adly: The basic slogans of the January revolution were: bread –
freedom – social justice – human dignity. It is an essential link of the
national democratic revolution, and came after a long historical stage
that had begun in the mid-seventies of the last century, with the rule
of dependent big capitalism and a full cycle of regression, backwardness
and tyranny. During that period, the reactionary forces, in alliance
with world imperialism and Arab reaction, managed to strengthen a
climate that allowed the current of political Islam – especially the
Muslim Brotherhood – to spread and ascend. The forces of the left were
weakened, workers were displaced and big industries were liquidated in
order to deal a blow to any possibilities for achieving comprehensive
development.
In fact, the workers have been involved in most of the protests that
have escalated since 2006 and are participating in all the popular
demonstrations as part of the people and not in a class organized
manner. This is due to the absence of strong trade union organizations
and federations because of a long legacy of a tyranny and government
repression to control the federations and trade unions. It is also due
to the big changes to the class map and to the nature of the composition
of the working class in various sectors that took place during the past
period. Small and medium-sized industries controlled by private sector
were relied upon, where workers were prevented from forming trade
unions. The working class did not emerge in a clear class manner in the
revolution. As a result of the lack of effective unity among the forces
of the left and its weakness during the previous stage for many reasons,
which there is no room here to mention, the labor movement did not
appear in an effective and influential manner commensurate with the size
of its participation and big sacrifices in the revolution.
It is important to clarify that the workers in the public sector have
discovered that the practices and attitudes of the Muslim Brotherhood do
not differ from the orientations of the Mubarak regime, rather they
were worse. The Muslim Brotherhood implemented the same policies on the
continuation of the privatization program and the liberalization of
prices, and did not raise the minimum wage even though it was one of the
first demands of the revolution. They even reduced the taxes on
businessmen, continued the privatization of services and refused to
implement the health insurance program. They insisted on selling and
mortgaging the assets of Egypt and its institutions through the project
of “Islamic bonds” which they rushed to pass in the Shura Council [the
upper house of parliament] controlled by Muslim Brotherhood. The most
dangerous position was their refusal to pass the law to ensure freedom
to form unions, which they had agreed upon with all political forces and
trade union currents before the revolution, and replaced Mubarak’s men
in the government-controlled General Union of Egyptian Workers with
their own men. This is the social and democratic basis for the bias of
the working class in favor of the revolution against the rule of the
Muslim Brotherhood and the forces of political Islam, in addition to the
other reasons that we have mentioned earlier.
Anyone who imagines that workers only revolt for factional issues or for
economic reasons is mistaken. Workers are more aware of the dangers of
the extremist religious right-wing project and their right-wing and
fascist practices in all democratic, political, economic, social, and
national fields.
Q3- In your statements, the CP Egypt characterises the current
developments as a revolution .. What are the nature, tasks and urgent
demands of the revolution?
Salah Adly: Yes, what is happening now is a revolution. To be precise,
it is the second big wave of the January 2011 Revolution, as its first
wave was aborted because it was robbed by the Muslim Brotherhood despite
the fact that they did not participate in calling for it or making it.
It is a democratic revolution with a clear social and patriotic
orientation. It is continuing, and broad social strata and various
political forces (liberal, nationalist and leftist) have participated in
it. With the continuation of the revolutionary tide, the truth about
the various positions has become clearer, and the biases of these forces
and their willingness to continue along the path of the revolution are
revealed.
The first democratic tasks of the revolution is promulgating a new civil
democratic constitution that stresses human rights, women’s rights and
economic and social rights for the toiling classes, and one which does
not negate the people’s right to choose its political and economic
system in the future according to the balance of forces. Thus, the task
of overthrowing the sectarian, reactionary and distorted Constitution,
rather than amending it, is a fundamental task for the democratic and
progressive forces in the present moment.
One of the tasks of the democratic revolution is also the freedom to
form trade unions, political parties and associations without government
interference, rejecting the formation of political parties on a
religious and sectarian basis, full equality between men and women in
terms of rights and duties, equality before the law and the
criminalization of religious and other forms of discrimination.
Among the social tasks is formulating an independent comprehensive
social development plan that is based on encouraging the productive
sectors with the need for equitable distribution of the development
product and wealth for the benefit of the poor and toilers and achieving
urgent social demands. A top priority among these demands is specifying
a minimum and maximum wage and linking it to prices, cancelling debts
for small peasants, redistributing the budget items to increase spending
on health and education, providing housing for low-income people,
raising taxes on the rich, regaining possession of the corporations that
were looted from the public sector and fighting against corruption.
The national tasks are: opposing dependency on the United States,
refusing to succumb to Zionist hegemony, amending the Camp David
agreement, restoring Egypt’s national role in the on Arab, African,
regional and international levels, and deepening the relationship with
the countries and peoples of the Third World.
Q4 – Do the current developments in Egypt mean rejection of the
‘political Islam’ or only rejection of “Moslem Brotherhood” by the
Egyptian people?
Salah Adly: The Muslim Brotherhood are the most effective and
influential organization among the forces of political Islam. All the
other organizations, including Salafi and Jihadist groups, were allies
with the Muslim Brotherhood and came out with them in their last battle
defending their regime because they know that their defeat would mean a
major defeat for the sectarian Islamist project which is supported by
the U.S. administration as an alternative to the collapsing
authoritarian regimes. Only the Salafi al-Nour Party was excluded from
the alliance in the last battle due to considerations related to its
association with Saudi Arabia, although we are aware that it is a
reactionary and sectarian party that is hostile to human rights and the
rights of women and minorities, including other Islamic sects. This was
evident in their inciting in the crime of murdering Shiites and dragging
their bodies in the horrific massacre that took place in a village last
month.
We believe that the battle is not over and there needs to be a
political, social and cultural struggle to crush their resistance and
change the general climate which has been rife for decades.
But what we would like to draw attention to is that what is happening in
Egypt now is not only a confrontation of the Muslim Brotherhood, and
their allies among the forces of the religious right, with the security
institutions of the state. They are in fact confronting the Egyptian
people of all sects and currents as well as all state institutions,
including the judiciary, media and culture. In neighborhoods and
villages, the Muslim Brotherhood will be now confronting the masses of
the Egyptian people, as they have certainly lost the support of large
segments of the people during the last two years. But the army and
security forces will have an important role in confronting their armed
terrorist militias.
In short, we see that what has happened is a big defeat for the project
of the religious right in general, and not only for the project of the
Muslim Brotherhood. It will have major implications in the region in the
coming period.
Q5- What is your view about the arguments which say Morsi’s removal is
undemocratic because he was elected through a legally and the new
Constitution was ratified through a referendum. Was Morsi overthrown by
the Egyptian army?
Salah Adly: Those who have ousted Morsi are more than 22 million
citizens of the Egyptian people who signed a document containing the
signatory’s name, ID number (national ID) and the name of the province,
written by hand rather than on the Internet, in an unprecedented
referendum that was culminated in the “big coming out” in main squares
by more than 27 million demonstrators on 30th June 30, continuing for
four consecutive days. It was Morsi who overthrew legitimacy when he
issued his dictatorial constitutional declaration in November 2011.
It
was Morsi who devastated human rights when his terrorist supporters
besieged the Constitutional Court, when his militia tortured protesters
in front of al-Ittihadyah Palace [the presidential palace]as shown by
investigations carried out by the public prosecutor office, and when his
men killed demonstrators in front of the headquarters of the Freedom
and Justice Party (the political arm of the Muslim Brotherhood) in
accordance with explicit orders from the leader of the group and his
deputy, as the killers confessed before the public prosecutor. It was
Morsi who reneged on the promises he had announced on the day he
succeeded to amend the Constitution and form a coalition government. He
and his group insisted on submitting to the conditions of the
International Monetary Fund, and also declared Jihad on Syria at a
conference of terrorist jihadist forces without referring to the army
and the National Defense Council.
Therefore, all the political parties and forces, and even the Salafi
al-Nour Party, which jumped from the ship before it sank, have supported
early presidential elections. This call is not a coup against
democracy, rather it emanates from the heart of popular democracy when
any president betrays his promises to the people and his program on the
basis of which the people had elected him.
To limit the cause of democracy to just the “ballot box” is a complete
plunder of the essence of democracy and an explicit rejection of the
right of peoples to revolt against their autocratic rulers and the
fascist regimes that use religion to hide their reactionary nature and
right-wing capitalist orientation.
The defending of Morsi by the United States and Western capitalist
states and portraying the issue as just a “military coup” against
“constitutional legitimacy” is a formal position that hides the fact
that world imperialism is terrified by peoples’ revolutions and their
ability to transcend the narrow confines of the democratic bourgeoisie
which represents, in essence, the optimal form to fulfill the interests
of big businessmen and monopolies and their local agents in controlling
the destiny of peoples in Third World countries.
What has happened is not a military coup in any way, but a revolutionary
coup by the Egyptian people to get rid of this fascist rule. What the
army did is carrying out the will of the people and protecting them from
the plots of the Muslim Brotherhood and their armed terrorist allies
who want to ignite sectarian strife and civil wars, divide the Egyptian
army and destroy the institutions of the Egyptian state to serve the
interests of imperialism and Zionism in the region.
What kind of military coup is it when tens of millions of people are in
the streets?!! What kind of military coup is it when the head of the
Constitutional Court has already assumed power, which is what had been
demanded by the Salvation Front, that includes all the opposition forces
with their various orientations and the “Tamarud” (Rebellion) youth
movement, and has been endorsed by the masses of the Egyptian people??!!
What kind of military coup is it when a government made up of civil
national qualified people will be formed and has full powers during a
transitional period not exceeding one year and ending with the
promulgation of a democratic civil constitution and presidential and
parliamentary elections which everyone is keen to have?? What kind of
military coup is it that allows the right to peaceful protests even by
its opponents and does not impose a state of emergency? The statement by
Al-Sisi, the Egyptian army chief, in which he declared the road map for
the transitional stage, was only announced after a dialogue and
consensus with the representatives of the Egyptian people, including the
youth of the “Tamarud” (Rebellion) movement, the representative of the
Salvation Front, the Sheikh of Al-Azhar, the Coptic Pope and a
representative of women. The Egyptian people have celebrated in main
squares, neighborhoods and villages this great victory for the Egyptian
people and the national army’s compliance with it.
We should, as taught by Marxism, proceed from the concrete reality and
not confine our vision to predetermined rigid ideas and ready formulas.
Isn’t it noteworthy that the Western media turn a blind eye to all this,
refuse to see the reality and insist that what is happening is a
military coup??!!!
Nevertheless, we are keen for the need to be alert and pay attention
during the next phase to ensure that the military’s role in this stage
is limited to the protection of the people and the Egyptian national
security and to abide by its promises not to interfere directly in
political affairs, and the need for the people to remain in the squares
to ensure the implementation of their demands in the transitional phase.
Q6 – What is your assessment of the USA’s position TOWARDS THE DEVELOPMENTS IN Egypt?
Salah Adly: The U.S. was taken by surprise by the revolution of January
2011, but it had been preparing for scenarios of change in Egypt before
that when it felt that the Mubarak regime had become aged. So it
intervened immediately after he was overthrown to form an alliance
between the former Military Council and the Muslim Brotherhood to pave
the way for handing over power to Muslim Brotherhood after they pledged
to ensure fulfilling the interests of the United States, ensuring the
security of Israel and continuing the neoliberal economic policy which
is against the interests of the popular masses.
But the United States discovered after a while the extent of the
inability of the Muslim Brotherhood to run the affairs of governance,
their lack of qualified people and their insistence on alliance with the
jihadi groups instead of an alliance with the liberal forces and
uniting the big capitalists’ class with its various strata in a stable
system that is based on a transfer of power that revolves in the orbit
of this class and ensuring America’s interests. The U.S. was at the same
time also keen to ensure the interests and privileges of the military
institution in order to guarantee its loyalty.
But the United States was at the same time afraid of the continuation of
the revolutionary situation in Egypt, the mounting scale of the
protests and the escalation of popular rejection of the rule of the
Muslim Brotherhood. Therefore, it exerted pressure on the Muslim
Brotherhood to carry out reforms, and also exerted pressure on the
forces of the liberal opposition, especially those representing the
interests of big capital in Wafd Party, Free Egyptians Party and the
Constitution Party to speed up parliamentary elections, end their
alliance with the forces of the left and reject the revolutionary
orientations of the youth movements which believe that the objectives of
the revolution and the uprooting of the Muslim Brotherhood’s regime can
only be achieved with a big popular revolution against it and
boycotting the elections.
When the “Tamarud” (Rebellion) and its genius idea to withdraw
legitimacy from Morsi were successful, it put everyone in a dilemma when
broad sections of the people and the political forces responded to it.
This put an end to the wavering of all the parties and forces, and they
rallied behind the popular option to overthrow Morsi and conduct early
presidential elections. This demand escalated to calling for the
overthrow of the Muslim Brotherhood’s regime, changing the Constitution
and correcting the course of the revolution through a new revolutionary
legitimacy and a new transitional phase on a proper basis.
The Muslim Brotherhood, the Americans, the army, and even the forces of
political opposition and youth, did not imagine that the people’s
response will be of this mighty size which forced everyone to implement
the people’s will.
We know that the United States exerted pressure in a flagrant manner on
the leaders of the army and the liberal political forces not to
overthrow Morsi and only carry out big reforms. But it was too late and
everyone realized that the people have spoken and that the alternative
would be the escalation of civil war, the escalation of terrorism and
sectarian strife, and opening the door to foreign intervention.
The arrival at this critical point led to the overthrow of Morsi and the
intervention of the army in a manner that serves the objectives of the
revolution at this stage. It is noteworthy that this is the first time
that the Egyptian army has disobeyed America’s orders because it has
realized the nature of the big dangers that would plague itself and the
homeland if it declines to support the revolution.
The national and democratic forces realize that the army’s leaders have
interests and privileges which they want to preserve, and they also want
to have a role in power without a direct political interference. We
believe that this has to be taken into account at this stage with
emphasis on correcting things gradually during the next phase.
We expect that the United States, in the current critical period, will
encourage plots to ignite sedition and strife and to encourage these
groups to stir up chaos to achieve the schemes of “creative chaos”
schemes and turn Egypt into another Iraq. This is what happened and was
revealed in the plot on Friday 5thJuly. This plot has been called by the
youth “the Tripartite, U.S. – Israeli – Muslim Brotherhood, Aggression”
on the people of Egypt. The plan was aimed at aborting the revolution,
reinstating Morsi, spreading chaos and terror through demonstrations
that would occupy the Liberation squares by employing weapons and
terrorism, launching a campaign of rumors and a war of disinformation
that was unprecedented in Egypt in order to create divisions between the
people and the army and within the military itself, and conspiring with
jihadist groups in Sinai to declare it a liberated area in collusion
with Israel and the Islamic groups in Gaza.
Egypt lived through critical hours after the speech of terrorism and
intimidation delivered by the leader of the fascist group, the Muslim
Brotherhood, to his supporters in Rabi’a al-Adawiyya square in Nasr
City, Cairo. That was the signal for the start of this big conspiracy to
turn against the popular will. The CNN as well as the BBC Arabic
service TV channels played a dangerous role in this plot. But the people
and the army were able to foil this plot and the shameful role of
America and the Muslim Brotherhood’s betrayal of the people and the
homeland were exposed. This was a major blow to the schemes of America
and imperialism in the region, and reaffirmed the triumph of the
revolution and the people’s will over the forces of counter-revolution.
Q7 – What is your assessment of the newly appointed interim president, Adly Mansour, and what he should immediately do?
Salah Adly: He is a judge who is well-known for his integrity and
competence, and had not professed any political positions or adopted
certain biases. The speech he delivered after he was sworn in and took
up his post as interim president for the transitional period was a good
and positive speech. He stressed that it was “the people alone” who
authorized him, and that the powers granted to him are honorary, but the
real authority will reside in the prime minister who will be chosen by
consensus among the national forces and youth, and who will be charged
with the implementation of tasks agreed upon by national democratic and
social forces. A top priority for the government will be to halt the
economic collapse, implement the urgent demands of the toilers and
provide security.
We see the need for continued public pressure in the squares, which was
confirmed by the statement announced by Al-Sisi, protecting the right to
peaceful demonstration. This is to ensure that there will be no
deviation from what has been agreed upon, and to ensure that the army
will not intervene except within the limits agreed to ensure the success
of this difficult transitional stage.
Q8 – What are the main challenges facing your party, specifically in
relation to other political forces and creating a united alliance?
Salah Adly: The main challenge is the need to unite the forces of the
left in the first place to confront the big tasks that we are facing at
this stage. The most important are:
1) To ensure the achievement of the objectives and tasks of the transitional phase.
2) To achieve consensus on a single candidate for the national and
democratic forces to fight the battle of presidential elections.
3) To form a front of leftist forces, Nasserites, youth movements and
trade union organizations; to prepare joint lists to fight the
forthcoming parliamentary and local elections; and to exert pressure to
ensure there is no retreat from correcting the path of the revolution in
the transitional phase.
4) To seek to complete and develop the party structure, to renew the
party with fresh blood, and to develop its program so that we can face
the big challenges that we are confronting.
